I guess what separates me from those at Mars Hill Church is that no one tells me what to do. Whereas these people are told what to do by God and the Bible, I have an open mind and am able to make decisions on my own, not guided by a book or an imaginary being.

The Bible tells them that a man must provide for his family. However, I feel as though I do provide for my family. Maybe I don't bring home a paycheck, but I provide the meals, the clean house, the learning, the safety and the protection for my family. I guess what the church means by "providing" means money, which, in my opinion, what the church feels is most important anyway.

**************************
My wife asked me if I had signed up for the 401k yet. I told her I hadn't. She asked me why and I told her I couldn't run that far.

She quotes the book of Timothy. Timothy also says that a woman should stay silent, should not teach, should not wear gold jewelry, and should not braid her hair.

The bible is full of wonderful examples of good fathers, including a father who sacrifices his sons to god, a father who allows his daughter to be raped by a mob of perverts, and a father who sleeps with his daughters while intoxicated.
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http://www.altparenting.com

I guess I need a little 'church discipline' since I'm worse than an unbeliever now.

These people are suck stupid [insert you favorite words here]. They go on about how important of a job it is to raise your children, but somehow can't make the connection that a father doing so is providing for his family in a way that just bring home a paycheck could never equal. It seems so hypocritical to be preaching about Jesus and at the same time condemn fathers for taking good care of their children. A perfect example of why I do not attend church.

Rich C. : Novice baby wrangler and cat herder.
http://one-sahd-dude.blogspot.com/
http://good-eats-fan.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/onesahddude/

This is essentially the long version of the John Hagee clip that ticktock posted a few weeks ago. Nothing new here except that these people are more attractive and "hip" than Hagee. Their comments are often generalizations and oversimplifications, but I point out that so are some of the previous comments of this--as well as the Hagee--thread.

As I said then, I try not to engage in the culture wars. It is a colossal waste of time. I'll respect you and your beliefs and leave you alone; I only ask the same in return.

It's sad. They would have me believe that I am less of a man, and/or try to convince me that I am going to hell because I am the (unpaid) primary parent/caregiver of my children while my wife supports our family financially. But, it would be infinitely more sad if I actually started to believe them.

I was a little curious as to how this "pastor" supports his family. Oh, he receives "donations". (i.e. begs) Obviously, a very hypocritical church but I am not offended. I served proudly in the military for 5 years so they'd have the right to believe what they want by twistng around what men wrote in a book thousands of years ago. My way of "providing" for his ignorance. Also, is a women an unbeliever if she works instead of watching her kids? How about a mother who is so in tune with taking care of their kids that they leave them in a car in the summer. Amazing how these churches judge people. Is it not up to the almighty? If I raise a caring and non-judgemental child, I feel I have PROVIDED the way God intended. Finally, I'm sure they homeschool since we don't want to have someone else watch their kids during the day.

As a Christian I think I am qualified to expound on this.

What a couple of tools.

Nicely done, SAHD96. I appreciate what you said.

I am always touched by the passion and hatred regarding "organized" religion and all of its apparent hypocrisy. Let me share with you that I am a hypocrite as well. And, it is not a stretch to say that most people, both Christian and non-Christian are hypocritical in many aspects of their lives.

I wonder if what we all seek is a little tolerance? Maybe even some acceptance or forgiveness? Religious practices and beliefs are personal. There really is no such thing as "organized" religion. I say this because, within every religion, every denomination, every town, and even within a single church and congregation, there are people with different views, tolerances, practices and beliefs. And, we all have doubts. It is human nature to feel doubt. The person that sits next to me on any given Sunday, is probably different than me in many of their views, beliefs and doubts. And, I am ok with that.

Because the best of the worst always captures everyone's attention, many people don't realize that the majority of Christian denominations have an open door policy. Everyone is welcome. No one there can make you believe anything in order to come and worship in your own way. Even if you choose to join the Church that you attend, the most you will be asked to do is to believe in Christ. I think that belief in Christ is the only real prerequisite to becoming a Christian. If that is too much for you, then of course you can keep attending the church and participate without officially "joining." Or, you could try one of the many other types of churches out there. My feeling is that most of us need and seek some spiritual aspect to our lives. I encourage you not to give up until you find the right fit.

Please remember, just as McCain and Obama fail to accurately represent the views of everyone within their respective party, there are many religious people, including many Christians, that fail to accurately represent the views of all individuals using the same moniker.

Well, nicely said SAHD96 and nice reply JPhillip, I couldn't agree with you guys more. Even phase-3's judgment of who he thinks she is or was, was entertaining to read. Thanks for that!

They way I see it is they are way over there and we are over here. We shall not be judged by them or who they think God is to them. When they judge us, it defines who they are, not who we are.

You're all worried that this reflects badly on Christians?

Over here in Europe, this is exactly how the man in the street thinks Americans are.

Have a think about that when you're voting in November...

The joys of these folks are that they sponge off of other people financially and then tell them how to spend their money. If God is omnipotent as most Christians believe, why isn't he better with money? If they truly speak with God, why doesn't he help them mange their cash flow a little better?

And hey, nice wardrobe for a professional panhandler. The only difference between this nut and the guys at the end of the off-ramp is the medium they use to get their money.

As a lifelong Christian, former church worker, and generally not stupid human being, I know that only a fool thinks the verses in the Bible can be interpreted one way and only one way. This is how these hacks do it. They take a scripture, sometimes out of context, and then quote it as "the Gospel" and use it to bash people over the head until they feel guilty enough to give money for being sinners. It's a blasphemy to God to condemn His children this way and my only comfort is in knowing that according to their own beliefs, these people will one day stand before God and have to answer for their judgment.

Jesus Christ (the Son of God) said--"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5)

Hey "beam boy," back atcha.....

And finally....he says that a man shall "provide" for his family. Who is he to say I am not doing exactly that? Providing for my family. I am providing daily leadership and care for those I love. I am providing guidance and a living example for my children that they may grow up to know God. What I am NOT providing is a narrow, sexist viewpoint that only humans with breasts and vaginas are capable of doing the job. What Timothy is told is that a man must provide the right example, support and care for his family, not the right house, the right job and the right tax bracket. But I wouldn't expect Pastor Strip Mall to understand that and he has obliged me and lived up to my expectations.

Thanks, man!

Hey, BHW. Reread some of the replies above. There are some really good people out there. Don't let one clown reinforce a stereotype for you.

Peace,
A confessed hypocrite.

Ps. No church can "make" you give them money. And, there are many out there that won't even ask.

how does one choose wisely? This is the product of our moder golden age of materialism or me-ism.

The man in the steet here could care less what people in Europe or most anywhere think, he's more concerned with where his next bottle or meal are comming from.

Sterotyping all Christians, all Muslims, all Americans, all Brits, all blacks, all whites, all SAHD's, all SAHM's is ALL the same wet crap. Don't fool yourself by applying to one and not the other and yes, we've all been guilty of being hypocrits. Be it Americans, Europeans, or any social, geographical, political, nationalistic, religious or other like wholehearted attachments of conviction or identity people make. To be sure, any form of me-ism is often accompanied by hypocracy, critisism, greed, hatred, intolerance, wars and general inhumanity.

Humans are humans, doesn't necessarily matter where you're from in this respect as where your head and heart are at. Any way you size it up, the world (and planet) is most often a messed up place. Compounding the problem is and always has been more finger pointing than finger lifting. Whoever pointed out the command of Jesus summed it up best, basically, love God with all your heart and all else will follow, for if you love God you will also truely love your neighbors and likewise truely love yourself and come to appreciate all the things you've been blessed with. Ironically, the next step in human evolution.

Can be read here.

Apologies for the delay SAHD96, takes a while for the pigeon post to get over here.
Of course I KNOW you're not all like that and yes, SugarMamasBoy, I KNOW I was guilty of stereotyping just as much as the Pastor From Mars.

But you kind of underlined my point with your surprise – many Americans are unaware how they are seen abroad and let me tell you, it’s probably not as positive as you’d like to think.
I am, of course, employing hyperbole to say we think you’re all like The Bowler, but to be honest, it’s not a million miles away from how you’re seen in Europe and, I’m guessing, the rest of the world.

Unreasonable, bulllish, blinkered, lacking in empathy, no interest in understanding other ways of life, a red-eyed belief in your own righteousness, not to mention terrible dress-sense? Now am I describing the Pastor or George Dubya? Or any other of your leaders/candidates for that matter?
(Actually, I take it back about dress-sense re. Obama, he’s always very well turned-out)

Now you might turn around and say ‘Hey, you can’t tar me with the same brush as those muppets in Washington!’ but where else is the rest of the world going to get their information from? Seinfeld? And face it, for all your well-meaning ideals about judging as you find people, everyone uses shorthand to categorise people. Brits all have terrible teeth and worship Princess Di, right? Okay, so you possibly don’t think of all Muslims as suicide-bombing zealots, but you rarely see footage of Iraqi or Afghani heart surgeons or care-workers on CNN, do you? The average man in the street in Baghdad is probably a decent fella – maybe he’s even a SAHD (imagine the flak he has to endure down the mosque!), but the truth is that the actions of a few extremists – whether they’re terrorist or elected leaders - is always going to colour the way you look at people.

Anyway, the point is, it would be unthinkable for a presidential candidate to run a campaign without endless reference to religion and their own deep faith. Both sides of the recent election spoke about it at length, both genuinely believed that God was on their side. I’m not questioning either man’s faith or implying that it was just political posturing, but stop for a moment and consider how that looks to the outside world: the future heads of world’s most powerful and heavily-armed nation saying essentially the same thing as The Bowler. ‘I am right, WE are right. And if you don’t like it, you can get out of my church, because God has spoken to me and He tells me I am right too.’ And America’s church, of course, is the world.

For you, it’s just another election, trying to work out who’s going to deliver a better life for you and your family. For the rest of the world, it’s a lot more important than that, because if you squint a bit, it looks to us as if you’re all wearing bowling shirts.